Detail: http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=3063 ============================== CFJ 3063 ============================== Rule 2344 contains the text "Murphy CAN cause this rule to make arbitrary rule changes by announcement." ======================================================================== Caller: G. Judge: Walker Judgement: ======================================================================== History: Called by G.: 06 Jul 2011 15:03:15 GMT Assigned to Walker: 07 Jul 2011 02:17:03 GMT ======================================================================== Caller's Arguments: The "with notice" should have taken care of the R101 objection underlying the CFJ3034 judgement, when the second attempt was made (see Evidence). ais523's gratuitous arguments in CFJ3034 have yet to be answered. As a counterargument to ais523, I'll note that the R105 "when permitted by other rules" is satisfied by the fact that the Rules state that the President CAN take actions, which makes any such actions POSSIBLE unless prohibited (and instruments of sufficient power are not prohibited from changing the rules). Note that in R105 the "when permitted" clause is a particularly weak type of permission, not being "explicit" and being next to the "instrument generally CAN" clause. Together, this implies that if the Rules say that an Instrument CAN take an action generally unless prohibited, that is sufficient permission for R105; the protections to rule changes come from R1688 and R2140 preventing entities from becoming instruments in the first place. ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: Murphy's public message on Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:10:56 -0700: > I wrote: > >> G. wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Ed Murphy wrote: >>>> [Disclaimer: I attempt this, but it may be ineffective for some >>>> reason that I haven't noticed.] >>>> >>>> As Speaker, I cause the (now Power=1) President to amend Rule 2344 >>>> (Anarchy) by appending this text: >>>> >>>> Murphy CAN cause this rule to make arbitrary rule changes >>>> by announcement. >>>> >>>> CFJ: Rule 2344 was amended in the same message that this case >>>> was initiated. >>>> >>>> Evidence: the above text. >>> Gratuitous: R101(iv). >> I intend, with notice, to cause the President to amend Rule 2344 >> (Anarchy) by appending this text: >> >> Murphy CAN cause this rule to make arbitrary rule changes >> by announcement. > [Disclaimer: same as before.] > > I do so. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by G.: Also, it's important to note that the rules don't give Proposals any more permission than they give the president; R106 says that Proposals can and do make changes in general and provide a mechanism (just as the president can take actions in general by way of a different mechanism) and relies on the fact that instruments are not further prohibited from making actual rule changes, so can do so. So if the President can't, then neither can Proposals. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by omd: CFJ 2213 is highly relevant. I misremembered the precedent as stating that making rule changes is not an "action", but in fact it's the exact opposite. However, I still disagree: Rule 103 (or 2326) does not allow the President to take arbitrary actions, in the sense of "any gamestate change that can be written as one". Even without Presidential Power, that includes control over any number of gamestate quantities; the President was supposed to be a virtual player, not a god. R103 explicitly does not make POSSIBLE any otherwise IMPOSSIBLE action: The Speaker CAN, by announcement, cause the President to take actions that are not otherwise IMPOSSIBLE, except for deregistration. Arguably this still applies because Rule 2326 makes it POSSIBLE for the President to take arbitrary actions in general: A first-class Player CAN cause the President to take actions Without Objection, or with Agoran Consent. but, as above, I think the implication is "actions that the President CAN take". ========================================================================