Detail: http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=3109 ============================== CFJ 3109 ============================== Bucky has satisfied the Victory Condition of Being Bucky ======================================================================== Caller: Bucky Judge: omd Judgement: UNDETERMINED Judge: omd Judgement: UNDETERMINED ======================================================================== History: Called by Bucky: 23 Oct 2011 17:05:36 GMT Assigned to omd: 23 Oct 2011 19:46:09 GMT Judged UNDETERMINED by omd: 23 Oct 2011 22:04:06 GMT Reconsideration requested by Pavitra: 24 Oct 2011 00:01:25 GMT Reconsideration requested by omd: 24 Oct 2011 00:07:10 GMT Reconsideration requested by G.: 24 Oct 2011 00:17:38 GMT Assigned to omd: 24 Oct 2011 00:17:38 GMT Judged UNDETERMINED by omd: 24 Oct 2011 02:47:24 GMT ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: From: John Smith I publish the following document, "Victory Condition of Being Bucky": {{ The entity in question has sent a message to a public forum from the email address "spambait3@yahoo.com". }} ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Pavitra: if this worked, it would modify information for which the Herald is required to be a recordkeepor. Therefore, defining Victory Conditions is regulated. However, this scam might work if the office of Herald is vacant, so that no player is required to fulfill the office's duties. ======================================================================== Judge omd's Arguments: The term "Victory Condition" is currently undefined, but there is no reason to define it as "document labeled as a Victory Condition", as the caller seems to suggest. Rather, Rule 754 states we should use the term's ordinary language definition, which might be extrapolated as "condition under which victory can be achieved". Since Rule 2343 (Victory Cases) awards victory to those who satisfy a Victory Condition, this is a circular definition: the rules do not provide explicit guidance on whether or not the Condition of Being Bucky is, in fact, a Victory Condition, i.e. whether it is possible to win that way. In the absence of such guidance, however, it is best to conclude the default, that it is not. (Note that a rule defining something as a Victory Condition does provide such guidance, so rule-defined "Victory Conditions" are still valid even though the definition of Victory Condition is circular.) The statement is UNDETERMINED: Bucky has satisfied it, but it is not a Victory Condition. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Bucky: I suggest that a Player file a Motion to Reconsider CfJ 3109. Among other objections, the judgment is inconsistent with the judge's arguments. All information necessary to render a judgment of TRUE or FALSE is public, and the statement makes precise sense even after determining that the document "Victory Condition of Being Bucky" is not a Victory Condition. I feel a judgment of TRUE would be more appropriate. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Tanner L. Swett: a document titled "Victory Condition of Being Bucky" is not necessarily the Victory Condition of Being Bucky, any more than Tolkien's book titled "The Hobbit" is the The Hobbit. ======================================================================== Request for reconsideration by Pavitra: On 10/23/2011 06:42 PM, Pavitra wrote: > On 10/23/2011 06:04 PM, John Smith wrote: >> I suggest that a Player file a Motion to Reconsider CfJ 3109. Among >> other objections, the judgment is inconsistent with the judge's >> arguments. All information necessary to render a judgment of TRUE or >> FALSE is public, and the statement makes precise sense even after >> determining that the document "Victory Condition of Being Bucky" is >> not a Victory Condition. >> >> I feel a judgment of TRUE would be more appropriate. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: omd To: >> agora-business@agoranomic.org Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 5:04 >> PM Subject: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJs 3109, 3111 assigned to omd >> >> >> The statement is UNDETERMINED: Bucky has satisfied it, but it is not >> a Victory Condition. > > I do so, citing the quoted message and Tanner L. Swett's recent > arguments to a-d, and recommending FALSE. Whoops. I intend with two Support to take the quoted action. ======================================================================== Request for reconsideration by omd: I support; I may as well just judge it IRRELEVANT. ======================================================================== Request for reconsideration by G.: I support and do so. I think FALSE is right here (not undetermined nor irrelevant). Just using common language and any game (say Monopoly): 1. Bucky is standing on eir head (true); 2. You can win the game by standing on your head (false by omission). 3. Bucky won the game by standing on eir head (false). ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Bucky: You (and the people arguing in the discussion forum) seem to be failing to take into account the context in which the CfJ was called (i.e. immediately below a clearly labeled document, whose label matched the referent you collectively are claiming did not make sense) ======================================================================== Judge omd's Arguments: Honestly, if different people reasonably interpret the same trivial statement, under the same set of facts, as being true, false, and nonsensical, I'm going to go with "too vague". ========================================================================