From: <magika@aracnet.com>
To: agora-off <agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au>
Subject: OFF: CFJ 1180 Judged FALSE
Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 11:39 PM


======================================================================
                              CFJ 1180

    Peekee successfully raised the Priority of eir Proposal "Secret
    Proposals" repeatedly in the message titled "Priority Increase"
    with "Message-Id: <199911181025.KAA09187@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk>"
    as sent to the PF on the 18th of November 1999.

======================================================================

Called by:           Peekee

Judge:               Murphy
Judgement:           FALSE

Judge selection:

Eligible:            Murphy, t

Not eligible:
Caller:              Peekee
Barred:              -
Had their turn:      Blob, Chuck, Crito, Elysion, harvel, Kolja,
                     Lee, michael, Palnatoke
Already served:      -
Defaulted:           -
By request:          -
On Hold:             elJefe, Steve

======================================================================

History:

Called by Peekee:                     19 Nov 1999 10:32:54 +0000
Assigned to Murphy:                   20 Nov 1999 20:05:33 -0800
Judged FALSE by Murphy:               23 Nov 1999 02:37:16 -0800
Judgement Distributed:                As of this message

=====================================================================

Caller's Arguments:

Arguments as given in the above message in evidence.

======================================================================

Evidence attached by the Caller:

The message as sent on the 18th November,

>>
From:                   "Alan Riddell" <9900592@YELL.SMS.ED.AC.UK>
Organization:           Student Mail Server
To:                     "Agora-Business" <agora-
business@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au>
Date sent:              Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:25:22 +0000
Subject:                BUS: Priority increase
Send reply to:          agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au

I nearly always try and make my points about the Rules though
examples...
Also I realize that the choice of Proposal to try and do this with
is slightly ironic but here I go again...

I have recently Transferred 2 P-Notes to the Bank for the sole
purpose of raising the Priority of My Proposal "Secret Proposals"
by 2.

[ Message-Id: <199911171750.RAA02105@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk>
  17 Nov 99 17:59:57 +0000
    egroups number 2956 ]

Also

Rule 1771/6 (Power=1)
Changing Priority

      A Player may increase the Priority of a Proposal in the Queue,
      by indicating in the Public Forum that e does so, naming the
      integer amount by which the Priority is to be increased, and
      transferring to the Bank a number of P-Notes equal to the
      amount of the increase times the Priority Cost of that Proposal,
      provided that the transfer is not executed for any other
      purpose.

In recent events Promotor Wes allowed me to increase the Priority of
Proposals by posting messages to the PF *some time after* I originally
made those TOs.

If I was to now attempt to increase the Priority of "Secret Proposals"
by 2, it would succeed as I would have indicated that I am doing so
in the PF, and have transferred to the Bank "a Number of P-Notes equal
to the amount of the increase times the Priority Cost of that Proposal".
Also that TO has not been executed for any reason other than increasing
the Priority of "Secret Proposals" By 2.

It is clear from Wes' previous decisions that the TO does not have to
made in the same message that of the Priority increase.

There may be those who argue, that the transfer was executed for the
purpose of increasing the Priority of "Secret Proposals" once and once
only. However, the is nothing stated in the Rules that this is
explicitly the case, and I don't think that this (exactly) has ever
been tried before so game precedent doesn't come into this.  So, I
don't see why a TO that is made to allow a certain action can't allow
that certain action repeatedly if nothing states otherwise

Also, people may argue that, this would be increasing the Priority of
the Proposal by more than one and that was not the reason why the TO
was executed.  This best way I can see to argue around this is that...
If I was to make another TO to increase the Proposal by some amount ,
would the first Priority increase then fail as it indirectly caused
the Priority of the Proposal to be increased by an amount above the
level the TO was made for? This isn't exactly the same, but the same
principle applies.  The steps occur individually, thus what has gone
on before and what is about to go on afterwards does not matter.

So...


I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.


I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.

I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.

I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.

I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.
I hereby increase the Priority of the Proposal "Secret Proposals" by 2.

This should have raised the priority of "Secret Proposals" up to 102.



Alan "Peekee" Riddell

Email:
<A.Riddell-1@sms.ed.ac.uk>
<pkpeekee@hotmail.com>

UK Telephone:
0131 667 6000, Extension 36007

Web Site:
http://members.tripod.co.uk/AlanRiddell/Main.html

======================================================================

Judge's Arguments:

Increasing a Proposal's Priority on two separate occasions counts as
two separate purposes, even if the amount of increase is the same.

Think of one increase as "getting the Proposal closer to making the
next Batch", the second as "getting the Proposal into the next Batch",
and the third as "making it tough to knock this Proposal out of the
Batch".  These are different on a conceptual level.

More objectively, think of one increase as "increasing the Proposal's
Priority on November 18", and the second as "increasing its Priority
on November 19".  These are different on a chronological level.  And
putting them all into one message doesn't help; see Rule 1527.

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