==============================  CFJ 2857  ==============================

    Tiger is a pope.

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Caller:                                 Wooble

Judge:                                  omd
Judgement:                              FALSE

Appeal:                                 2857a
Decision:                               REMAND


Judge:                                  omd
Judgement:                              FALSE

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History:

Called by Wooble:                       09 Sep 2010 13:31:15 GMT
Assigned to omd:                        10 Sep 2010 08:26:01 GMT
Judged FALSE by omd:                    10 Sep 2010 22:21:51 GMT
Appealed by G.:                         10 Sep 2010 23:30:31 GMT
Appealed by Wooble:                     13 Sep 2010 18:38:03 GMT
Appealed by Tiger:                      13 Sep 2010 19:13:37 GMT
Appeal 2857a:                           13 Sep 2010 19:13:37 GMT
REMANDED on Appeal:                     24 Sep 2010 04:34:31 GMT
Assigned to omd:                        24 Sep 2010 04:34:31 GMT
Judged FALSE by omd:                    03 Oct 2010 19:50:33 GMT

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Caller's Arguments:

"pope" is not defined by the rules, and is not primarily
used in a mathematical or legal context, so we need to determine the
ordinary language definition in use in the rule created by P6832.

Common sense tells us that it's unlikely the rule refers to the head
of the Roman Catholic Church, as no person has held that role while a
Player of Agora.  Additionally, while the scope of Agora's ruleset is
unlimited, Agora has traditionally been gracious in not meddling in
the affairs of the Vatican.

"The Pope" is also a name commonly used for The Hierophant, the 5th
card of the tarot's Major Arcana.  While the Positions are no longer
defined as cards, it's not unreasonable to consider "5th major arcana
card" as a synonym for "5th position", which is held by Tiger.

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Gratuitous Arguments by Tiger:

(even though I would very much like to be a pope):
The fact that the 5th position in our "major arcana" is called the
Crown Prince goes against the idea that it should represent the pope.
In no culture that I'm aware of has the pope been next in line to rule
after the King.

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Gratuitous Arguments by G.:

I hereby certify that I bear a physical copy of this card, and did so at
the time and prior to the time of the proposal being adopted:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/pope_card.pdf
part of whose text, placed as it is in R101, has a clear Agoran legal
status.

It is also Good Forever.

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Judge omd's Arguments:

As judge of CFJ 2857, I publish the following /incorrect/ judicial
declarations:

{ G.'s position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ coppro's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ omd's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ woggle's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Wooble's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Tiger's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Taral's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ ehird's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Sgeo's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Tanner L. Swett's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ ais523's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Murphy's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Yally's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }

Assuming that announcement is a valid way to publish a judicial
declaration (no particular mechanism is specified in the rules), I
don't know whether that succeeded in doing anything.  In CFJ 1971 it
was ruled that actions like posting a report don't work with excessive
disclaimers (presumably that would include explicitly calling it
incorrect), and in the "five lights" scam it was held (I think?) that
you can't post a NoV without being Truthfulness-liable for its
contents, but we do allow ratifying incorrect documents, and I don't
see a clear distinction between that and this-- both are attempts to
submit incorrect documents to the Rules.

But in any case, since I don't know whether the last action succeeded,
I can quite honestly publish the following judicial declarations (same
as above):

{ G.'s position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ coppro's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ omd's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ woggle's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Wooble's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Tiger's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Taral's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ ehird's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Sgeo's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Tanner L. Swett's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ ais523's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Murphy's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }
{ Yally's position on the List of Succession is unknown. }

...As a certain person would say, in light of this, the issue between
Wooble and Tiger takes on a somewhat academic cast, but I judge FALSE.
 Although the caller's arguments are tempting, out of the three
dictionaries I tried (Merriam-Webster, Google, OS X Dictionary.app),
only Google offers The Hierophant as a definition of "pope", and the
metaphors of court, church, and Tarot deck are a bit too confused to
accept that particular interpretation.

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Appellant G.'s Arguments:

I intent to appeal this case with 2 support.  This will hopefully
find the declaration inappropriate and cause the judgement, and
therefore the declaration, to have no effect, as (arguably) allowed
by R2212.

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Appellant Wooble's Arguments:

I support.  In any event, the judge did not consider every possible
reason Tiger could be a pope (including the gratuitous arguments
regarding Discordian Popeiness), so a judgment of UNDETERMINED should
be considered.

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Judge omd's Arguments:

To quote Wooble on why the Discordian interpretion of "pope" doesn't
make sense here:

> As do I, and I was considering arguing that I could issue a notice of
> papal succession for any man, woman, or child. =C2=A0However, when a pope
> becomes Speaker, e ceases to be a pope, which is clearly impossible if
> we're talking about Discordian popes. =C2=A0The rule also purports to
> restrict people from becoming popes while there's an existing pope,
> which also doesn't work with Discordian popes.

And to quote myself:

> 2. UNDETERMINED is not appropriate ("uncertainty as to how to
> interpret or apply the rules cannot constitute insufficiency of
> information for this purpose").  UNDECIDABLE may be*, but I think it
> is more in the interests of the game to treat the pope reference as
> excessively ambiguous -> FALSE.

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