From nomic-official-owner@teleport.com Tue Apr 11 00:36:00 1995
Return-Path: nomic-official-owner@teleport.com
Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by Shamino.quincy.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA06420 for <blahedo@quincy.edu>; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 00:35:58 -0500
Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id WAA03750 for nomic-official-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 22:33:18 -0700
Received: from mizar.astro.indiana.edu (mizar.astro.indiana.edu [129.79.160.43]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA03710 for <nomic-official@teleport.com>; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 22:33:07 -0700
Received: from poverty by mizar.astro.indiana.edu with uucp
	(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0ryYZV-0001YDC; Tue, 11 Apr 95 00:33 EST
Received: by poverty.bloomington.in.us (V1.17-beta/Amiga)
	  id <2nwp@poverty.bloomington.in.us>; Tue, 11 Apr 95 00:14:24 EST5
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 00:14:24 EST5
Message-Id: <9504110514.2nwp@poverty.bloomington.in.us>
From: kelly@poverty.bloomington.in.us (Kelly Martin)
To: nomic-official@teleport.com
Subject: OFF: CFJ761: Judgement
Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com
Status: RO

======================================================================
			 JUDGEMENT OF CFJ 761
       (Rule 692's correct interpretation prohibits Points...)
======================================================================

  Judgement:  FALSE

  Judge:   TAL

  Eligible to Judge:  Andre, Blob, Coren, Dave Bowen, Chuck, Elde,
		      elJefe, Jeffrey, Kelly, Michael, Pascal,
		      Steve, Swann, TAL, Vanyel, Xanadu

  Judge:   Vlad, defaulted by going on Hold

  Eligible to Judge:  Andre, Blob, Coren, Dave Bowen, Chuck, Elde,
		      elJefe, Jeffrey, Kelly, Michael, Oerjan, Pascal,
		      Steve, Swann, TAL, Vanyel, Vlad, Xanadu

  Caller:  KoJen

  Scorekeepor:
    Vlad loses 2 Points for going on Hold while appointed as a Judge
    TAL receives 5 Points for speedy Judgement

----------------------------------------------------------------------

History:
  Called Wed,  5 Apr 95 15:00:20 -0400 by KoJen
  Assigned Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:45 UTC to Vlad
  Defaulted Sun, 9 Apr 1995 19:01 UTC by Vlad
  --> Vlad loses 2 Points 
  Reassigned Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:40 UTC to TAL
  Judged FALSE Tue, 11 Apr 95 02:29:19 SET by TAL
  --> TAL receives 5 Points 

======================================================================

Statement:

I hereby Call For Judgement on the intreptation of Rule 692. The
correct interpretation prohibits Points from being transferred from a
Player who is not the Player requesting the transfer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Arguments & References:

Rule 692 is as follows:

Rule 692/2 (Mutable, MI=1)
Trading Points

      A Player may voluntarily transfer Points to any other Player for
      any purpose, within the following limits:
       (a) the transfer must be posted to the Public Forum
       (b) a Player may only transfer a positive number of Points
       (c) a Player may not transfer more Points than e currently has
       (d) a Player may not transfer Points if the recipient has more
           than than 90% of the Points required to Win, or would pass
           this limit as a result of the transfer.

      If any agreement among Players includes any transfer of Points
      between two Players then each such transfer shall be in
      accordance with the above.  But this Rule shall not be construed
      as having any bearing on the legality or legal enforceability of
      any terms of said agreement which do not involve such a
      transfer.

      All Nomic Entities shall abide by the above limits whenever
      Points are traded.  If a Nomic Entity must trade Points by the
      current Rules but would end up breaking the above limits, then
      the Nomic Entity trades the maximum amount possible without
      breaking any of the above limits.  This Rule shall have
      precedence over all other Rules pertaining to the Trading of
      Points.

In the absence of any specified "from" in the first sentence, and in the
absence of any special meaning for "transfer" defined in Agora, this can only
be taken to mean a transfer from the Entity requesting the transfer. Long
estabilished Game custom is consistent with this.

======================================================================

Judgement:  FALSE

Arguments:
"A Player may voluntarily transfer Points to any other Player for
 any purpose, within the following limits.." (Rule 692) does, in
general, not prohibit the transfer of points from another Player
than the Player who is doing the transfer.

Here is the dictionary definition:
trans.fer \'trans-.f*r\ n
  1: conveyance of right, title, or interest in property from one
     person to another
  2: an act or process of transferring
  3: one that transfers or is transferred
  4: a ticket entitling a passenger on a public conveyance to
     continue his journey on another route

It seems that 1) applies to the `transfer' mentioned in Rule 692.

However, KoJen appealed to Game Custom to justify the Statement.
As far as I know, no Player to Player transfers were ever made other
than from a Player A to a Player B, requested by A.
But I don't think that the lack of such transfers would therefore
exclude them.

I, for instance, never made a point transfer from myself to Elde,
but I don't think that this implies therefore that such transfers are
excluded by Game Custom.

An other argument is that such `irregular' transfers were at one
time allowed for Marks. And although it took awhile before somebody
did so, eventually it did happen.

Nor does the Spirit of the Game exclude such point transfers. If
anything, the S of the G would *encourage* such transfers.

Conclusion: the type of transfers mentioned in the Statement are not
prohibited and therefore allowed by 116 (no doubt our most frequently
invoked Rule.)

Note: this Judgment is a licence for theft. Any Player who wants to
win a game and who doesn't care to become an Honourless Worm in the
mean time, can go ahead. But be quick about it, a cure of 692 is in
the works.

References:


Rule 116/0 (Semimutable, MI=3)
Permissibility of the Unprohibited

      Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a Rule is permitted
      and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the Rules,
      which is permitted only when a Rule or set of Rules explicitly or
      implicitly permits it.

Rule 692/2 (Mutable, MI=1)
Trading Points

      A Player may voluntarily transfer Points to any other Player for
      any purpose, within the following limits:
       (a) the transfer must be posted to the Public Forum
       (b) a Player may only transfer a positive number of Points
       (c) a Player may not transfer more Points than e currently has
       (d) a Player may not transfer Points if the recipient has more
           than than 90% of the Points required to Win, or would pass
           this limit as a result of the transfer.

      If any agreement among Players includes any transfer of Points
      between two Players then each such transfer shall be in
      accordance with the above.  But this Rule shall not be construed
      as having any bearing on the legality or legal enforceability of
      any terms of said agreement which do not involve such a
      transfer.

      All Nomic Entities shall abide by the above limits whenever
      Points are traded.  If a Nomic Entity must trade Points by the
      current Rules but would end up breaking the above limits, then
      the Nomic Entity trades the maximum amount possible without
      breaking any of the above limits.  This Rule shall have
      precedence over all other Rules pertaining to the Trading of
      Points.

====
Greetings,
TAL

======================================================================
--
kelly martin                                 <kelly@poverty.bloomington.in.us>

       I have been told that when a large group of people believe in a
     fantasy, it is called a culture.  When a small group believes, it is
      called a cult.  When two people believe in a fantasy, it is called
	 love; and when one person believes, it is called psychosis.