From nomic-official-owner@teleport.com Thu Apr 13 17:18:19 1995
Return-Path: nomic-official-owner@teleport.com
Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by Shamino.quincy.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29060 for <blahedo@quincy.edu>; Thu, 13 Apr 1995 17:18:16 -0500
Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id PAA22582 for nomic-official-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:13:15 -0700
Received: from mizar.astro.indiana.edu (mizar.astro.indiana.edu [129.79.160.43]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA22548 for <nomic-official@teleport.com>; Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:13:03 -0700
Received: from poverty by mizar.astro.indiana.edu with uucp
	(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0rzX8H-0001VIC; Thu, 13 Apr 95 17:13 EST
Received: by poverty.bloomington.in.us (V1.17-beta/Amiga)
	  id <2pc9@poverty.bloomington.in.us>; Thu, 13 Apr 95 17:05:14 EST5
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 17:05:14 EST5
Message-Id: <9504132205.2pc9@poverty.bloomington.in.us>
From: kelly@poverty.bloomington.in.us (Kelly Martin)
To: nomic-official@teleport.com
Subject: OFF: CFJ763: Judgement
Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com
Status: RO

======================================================================
			 JUDGEMENT OF CFJ 763
	   (The correct interpretation of 1443 is, that...)
======================================================================

  Judgement:  FALSE

  Judge:   Dave Bowen

  Eligible to Judge:  Blob, Coren, Dave Bowen, Chuck, Elde, elJefe,
		      Jeffrey, Kelly, KoJen, Michael, Pascal, Steve,
		      Swann, Vanyel, Xanadu

  Caller:  TAL

  Scorekeepor:

    Dave Bowen receives 5 Points for speedy Judgement

----------------------------------------------------------------------

History:
  Called Tue, 11 Apr 95 04:00:55 SET
  Assigned Tue, 11 Apr 1995 05:45 UTC to Dave Bowen
  Judged FALSE Tue, 11 Apr 1995 10:18:54 -0500 by Dave Bowen
  --> Dave Bowen receives 5 Points 

======================================================================

Statement:

"The correct interpretation of 1443 is, that any Player who submits
a Proposal that passes and who has posted *any* proto-PROPOSAL to the
Public Forum within the given time limits, receives two points."

Barred Player: Andre

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Arguments:

1443 states that "A proposal which passes, and which was proto-proposed
in the same *form*" earns its submitter two points. Well, what is the
form of a proto-Proposal? It can not mean `exactly the same' as that
is contradictory to the usual meaning of the word `form':

form \'fo_.rm\ n
  1: SHAPE, STRUCTURE
  2: a body esp. of a person : FIGURE
  3: the essential nature of a thing
  4: established manner of doing a thing or saying something
  5: FORMULA
  6: a printed or typed document with blank spaces for insertion of
     requested information <tax form>
  7: CEREMONY, CONVENTIONALITY
  8: manner or style of performing according to recognized standards
  9: a long seat : BENCH
  10: a frame model of the human figure used for displaying clothes
  11: MOLD <a form for concrete>
  12: type or plates in a frame ready for printing
  13: MODE, KIND, VARIETY <coal is a form of carbon>
  14: orderly method of arrangement; also : a particular kind or
     instance of such arrangement <the sonnet form in poetry>
  15: the structural element, plan, or design of a work of art
  16: a bounded surface or volume
  17: a grade in a British secondary school or in some American
     private schools
  18: a table with information on the past performances of racehorses
  19: known ability to perform; also : condition (as of an athlete)
     suitable for performing
  20: one of the ways in which a word is changed to show difference
     in use <the plural form of a noun>


So the question is, when was a Proposal submitted in the same form
as the proto? This can only be so, when the proto obeyed the same
Rules concerning the form as the Proposals. No more. Specifically,
nothing is said about the similarity in *content* of proto and
Proposal.

Therefore *any* proto posted to the Public Forum within the given
time limit would seem to fulfill that requirement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

References:

Rule 1443/0 (Mutable, MI=1)
Bonus for Proto-Proposing

      A Proposal may be proto-Proposed by sending it to the Public
      Forum and identifying it as a proto-Proposal.

      A proposal which passes, and which was proto-proposed in the
      same form between four and fourteen days before being submitted
      as a proposal, shall earn its proposer an extra two points at
      the end of the voting period.


======================================================================

Judgement:  FALSE

Explanation: As a noted U.S. Supreme Court Justice (Brennan, I think) commented
             about pornography, "I may not be able to define it, but I know
             it when I see it.", so it is in this case.  TAL's suggestion
             that same form means any proto-proposal at all is totaly specious
             (bovine excrement might be a better term).  Like the good Justice
             I will not attempt to give a complete definition of "being in the
             same form".  I think that the majority of the Players are quite
             capable of recognizing it when they see it.

======================================================================
--
kelly martin                                 <kelly@poverty.bloomington.in.us>

       I have been told that when a large group of people believe in a
     fantasy, it is called a culture.  When a small group believes, it is
      called a cult.  When two people believe in a fantasy, it is called
	 love; and when one person believes, it is called psychosis.