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Subject: OFF: CFJ 832 Judgement: TRUE
To: nomic-official@teleport.com
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 12:30:13 MET
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Status: RO

======================================================================

			JUDGEMENT CFJ 832
	Rule 1079 shall be interpreted such that the Dice-roll
	email server at dice@danpost4.uni-c.dk meets its
	requirements for randomness

======================================================================

Judge:		Andre (defaulted)
		Ian (defaulted)
		Michael
Judgement:	TRUE

Eligible:	Chuck, Coco, Dave Bowen, Kelly, Marc, Michael, 
		Morendil, Oerjan, Pascal, Saltwater, Steve, Swann,
		Vanyel, Vlad, Wes, Zefram

Not Eligible:	
Caller:		Vanyel
Barred:		
On Hold:	favor
1005:		KoJen
Defaulted:	Andre, Ian

Effects:	Andre gains 3 Blots for defaulting on Judgement
		Andre is not anymore eligible to be chosen as a Judge
		  until e requests to be eligible again
		  (e has already requested such)
		Ian gains 3 Blots for defaulting on Judgement
		Ian is not anymore eligible to be chosen as a Judge
		  until e requests to be eligible again
		Michael gains 5 Points for (extremely) speedy Judgement 
		  (2 1/2 hours!)

======================================================================

History:
  Called by Vanyel, 10 Nov 1995, 11:50 -0600 CST
  Assigned to Andre, 13 Nov 1995, 12:01 MET
  Defaulted by Andre, 13 Nov 1995, 12:01 MET
  Assigned to Ian, 22 Nov 1995, timestamp lost
  Defaulted by Ian, 29 Nov 1995
  Assigned to Michael, 1 Dec 1995, 09:47 MET
  Judged TRUE by Michael, 1 Dec 1995, 11:14 GMT

======================================================================

Requested Injunction: If this CFJ is judged TRUE, I request that Rule
1079 be annotated with the above Statement.

Arguments: The dice-roll server is run from a computer, and uses the
randomnessroutines thereon, which though only pseudorandom, are close
enough to random for our purposes.  Furthermore, that server is not
under the direct control of any Player, so there is no question of
false randomness.

======================================================================

From nomic-discussion-owner@teleport.com  Fri Dec  1 09:34:02 1995
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From: Michael Norrish <Michael.Norrish@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com
Subject: Re: OFF: CFJ 832 Judgement: TRUE
In-Reply-To: <199512011305.AAA15907@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au>
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Steve Gardner writes:

> I am surprised that Judge Michael has declined to issue an
> Injunction annotating R1079, however, since that was evidently the
> point of the CFJ.  Perhaps he had in mind Kelly's recent warning
> about Annotations which could be falsified by changes to things
> other than the Rules. Or perhaps his actual Judgement and Injunction
> just got lost?

They did rather.  :-)

In case Andre is unable to publish them in time to satisfy the high
demand I perceive exists for my reasons and arguments, I include the
message I sent to Andre:

> Judgment: TRUE

> Injunction: As requested by the caller, rule 1079 shall be annotated
> with the above statement.

> Argument: Given the evidence presented by the caller (which I have no
>           reason to doubt), it is clear that the dice-server will
> serve to choose one of all the possible choices with equal
> probability.  The dice-server apparently uses a random number
> generator, which means that it will effectively cycle through a series
> of numbers in the given range.  This means that, given the computer's
> state, there will be a probability of one that the next number in the
> (deterministic) cycle will be chosen, and zero for all other numbers.
> However, the fact that we can not determine the machine's internal
> state, and the fact that we "share" this machine with the rest of the
> Internet, together mean that we have no way of determining what the
> machine's internal state is.  Therefore, this Judge claims that the
> choice will be made from among all the possible choices with
> reasonably close to equal probability. 

Michael.