From firstname.lastname@example.org Fri Sep 19 05:40 EDT 1997 Received: from gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (email@example.com [126.96.36.199]) by cs.brown.edu (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id FAA26157 for firstname.lastname@example.org; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom-@localhost) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14438 for agora-official-list; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:32:24 +1000 Received: from wsinfm15.win.tue.nl (wsinfm15.win.tue.nl [188.8.131.52]) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14435 for email@example.com; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:32:19 +1000 Received: by wsinfm15.win.tue.nl (8.7.1/1.45) id LAA03922; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:35:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Andre Engels) Message-Id: email@example.com Subject: OFF: CFJ 943 Judgement: TRUE To: firstname.lastname@example.org (nomic-official list) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 6127 ====================================================================== CFJ 943 The Clerk of the Courts failed to execute the required Payment Orders within seven days of reporting an Infraction, as required by Rule 1599, for the following three Infractions: 07/24/97 09:35:39 +0100 Failure to Judge by Blob 07/24/97 09:39:56 +0100 Failure to Judge by Elde 07/25/97 17:59:28 +0100 Failure to Judge by elJefe ====================================================================== Judge: ChrisM Judgement: FALSE Eligible: Andre, Blob, Calabresi, ChrisM, Chuck, Elde, elJefe, General Chaos, Harlequin, Kolja A., Michael, Morendil, Murphy, Oerjan, Steve, Vir, Vlad, Zefram Not eligible: Caller: Crito Barred: On request: Vanyel On hold: Swann ====================================================================== History: Called by Crito, 15 Sep 1997 10:53:43 -0400 Assigned to ChrisM, 15 Sep 1997 17:07:40 +0200 (MET DST) Judged FALSE by ChrisM, 18 Sep 1997 22:05:25 -0400 ====================================================================== (Caller's) Arguments: It seems that a new CFJ is required to put things right, now that CFJ 940 has been judged TRUE. Caller's Other Remarks: [Note that if judged TRUE, the judge is required to execute these Payment Orders.] ====================================================================== Decision and Reasoning Judge Judgement: FALSE Reasons: The major problem in this situation is that the concept of payment orders, blots, and penalties are incredibly poorly defined in relation to each other. First of all, we have R1435, which tells us that a P.O. for 1 Indulgence with a payee as the Bank is called a Blot. It then tells us that when a Rule states that a Player is to gain some number of Blots, a P.O. shall be executed with that Player as the payor, the Bank as the payee, and for a # of indulgences equal to the # of Blots the Player is to receive. Thus, we have now implicitly recognized the concept of "gaining" a payment order, since a PO for 1 Ind. to the Bank = a Blot. This is incredibly unclear wording. So once the Blotee has "gained" a payment order, someone else is required to "execute" a payment order. Are these P.O.'s the same? It's quite unclear. But, and the next paragraph of the rule gives some support for this, I'm going to assume that this is just poor phrasing. So now someone is required to 'execute' the payment order. In this case, it was the CotC, under R408. A P.O. is "executed" by posting it to the Public Forum. So again, we have a point of confusion. Is a P.O. a message, or a string of text? Those things can be posted to the Public Forum. On the other hand, if that were the case, then any message in the correct form would be a P.O., and if it were specifically in the correct form under R1435, it would be a Blot. This is still a Blot, regardless of whether it has been 'executed.' So then, for example, I have a # of Blots = to the # of messages in that form that I have? Well, have where? In my mailbox? In some platonic mailbox? But then again, R1435 says a Player 'may be said' to have a # of Blots = to something else entirely. Thus, a contradiction. Now, I'm not saying that this interpretation of a Blot as a message is correct, merely that is is highly unclear and ambiguous in the Rules. R1596 never says that the *only* way a P.O. can be executed is for a player with the authority to post it to the Public Forum. Thus, except for one small point, I would be inclined to judge that R408, by assigning a penalty of 3 Blots to a crime, implicitly executes a P.O. for that amount. The problem, though (among many others I'm sure will be brought up over that point), is that a Blot "is to be executed by whomever is required to report the change in Blots." Thus, the CotC. So, as amazingly unclear as the situation is, it does appear that the CotC was required to 'execute' the Blot/P.O.'s by 'post[ing] the Order to the Public Forum.' So did he? *Yes.* Why do I have a feeling this is going to be appealed? Anyway, here's why. Here's what the CotC said: "Blob commits the Infraction of Failing to Judge, an action which bears the penalty of 3 Blots." A Blot has been defined in the rules. Thus, this sentence is equivalent to: Blob commits...an action which bears the penalty of 3 Payment Orders for 1 Indulgence, the payees of which are the Bank. In my opinion, this "specifies exactly one source entity, exactly one destination entity, exactly one Currency, and a number of units of that Currency which is a positive multiple of that Currency's MUQ." The syntax and meaning of a 'penalty' makes it clear that Blob is the source entity, and the rest is clear. The message concerning Elde was phrased identically. elJefe's was phrased differently: "elJefe receives 3 Blots committing the Infraction of Failing to Judge." So elJefe receives 3 P.O.'s? This syntax would seem to indicate that elJefe is the pay*ee* of this transaction! But the Bank is already defined as the payee, by the definition of a Blot. So this does *not* specify exactly one source entity and one destination entity. Thus, the CotC *did* fail to execute the required P.O. for the 3rd infraction. However, as the statement of the CFJ alleges that the CotC failed in all *3* cases, it must be judged FALSE. A possible objection would be that R1435 specifies what it means to 'gain some # of Blots.' That is quite true -- it means that a P.O. shall be executed. But the P.O. was *not* executed, as R1435 does not mention anything about *messages* stating that players gain Blots, only about *Rules* which so state. So my judgement is FALSE, CFJ 940 be damned. I have "considered game custom, commonsense, past Judgements, and the best interests of the game before applying other standards." I personally think CFJ 940 was judged incorrectly; however, that is irrelevant here. I'm under no obligation to abide by past incorrect judgements. :) What a welcome back to Agora!